<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Openness, Radicalism, and Tolerance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511</link>
	<description>pragmatism over zeal</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 23:17:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Open education: if you can do it, do it &#124; FLOSSE Posse</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46692</link>
		<dc:creator>Open education: if you can do it, do it &#124; FLOSSE Posse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 09:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46692</guid>
		<description>[...] Wiley wrote a follow-up post with the title Openness, Radicalism, and Tolerance and asking “Why isn’t the open crowd more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wiley wrote a follow-up post with the title Openness, Radicalism, and Tolerance and asking “Why isn’t the open crowd more [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 451 CAOS Theory &#187; Open core is not a crime</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46684</link>
		<dc:creator>451 CAOS Theory &#187; Open core is not a crime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 14:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46684</guid>
		<description>[...] demonising against open core vendors they are also promoting David Wiley&#8217;s excellent recent post calling for more tolerance of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] demonising against open core vendors they are also promoting David Wiley&#8217;s excellent recent post calling for more tolerance of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: links for 2010-06-30 &#171; Wild Webmink</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46673</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2010-06-30 &#171; Wild Webmink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46673</guid>
		<description>[...] Openness, Radicalism, and Tolerance &quot;Why isn’t the open crowd more open-minded?&quot; &#8212; Another person observing the indisputable fact that the open source and free software worlds are rife with sectarianism. To answer the question, it is a consequence of the passion people have combined with the nature of the issue and the one fact no-one feels free to seriously mention, the fact that much of the brilliance in the community is a consequence of the focus that Aspergers delivers. (tags: OpenSource FOSS Radical Fundamentalism) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Openness, Radicalism, and Tolerance &quot;Why isn’t the open crowd more open-minded?&quot; &#8212; Another person observing the indisputable fact that the open source and free software worlds are rife with sectarianism. To answer the question, it is a consequence of the passion people have combined with the nature of the issue and the one fact no-one feels free to seriously mention, the fact that much of the brilliance in the community is a consequence of the focus that Aspergers delivers. (tags: OpenSource FOSS Radical Fundamentalism) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Replanteando supuestos sobre la educación y la escuela. (Nueva legislación sobre escuelas libres en el Reino Unido) &#171; Blog Educación Democrática &#8211; EUDEC</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46671</link>
		<dc:creator>Replanteando supuestos sobre la educación y la escuela. (Nueva legislación sobre escuelas libres en el Reino Unido) &#171; Blog Educación Democrática &#8211; EUDEC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46671</guid>
		<description>[...] tanto de encontrar, en un momento de búsqueda global de nuevos paradigmas, y desde una actitud de apertura mental, nuevas síntesis de [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tanto de encontrar, en un momento de búsqueda global de nuevos paradigmas, y desde una actitud de apertura mental, nuevas síntesis de [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MJ Ray</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46670</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46670</guid>
		<description>Despite how it may look at first glance, there are no general objective tests to tell whether or not modifications of software have improved it.  Some bugfixes almost always are, but is porting to a more recent system an improvement?  Is adapting it to meet your needs instead of the original author&#039;s an improvement?  Maybe.

And we don&#039;t rejoice at CC-BY-NC-ND because fair use is insufficient, while NC is ill-defined and more advantageous for the rich than for workers who need to earn a living from the net combination of their actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite how it may look at first glance, there are no general objective tests to tell whether or not modifications of software have improved it.  Some bugfixes almost always are, but is porting to a more recent system an improvement?  Is adapting it to meet your needs instead of the original author&#8217;s an improvement?  Maybe.</p>
<p>And we don&#8217;t rejoice at CC-BY-NC-ND because fair use is insufficient, while NC is ill-defined and more advantageous for the rich than for workers who need to earn a living from the net combination of their actions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Derek Keats</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46666</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Keats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 08:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46666</guid>
		<description>Wayne suggested I might like to comment, so here is my comment. The problem with labels is that they assume homogeneity where homogeneity is rare. In South Africa, we had Apartheid that created labels for people, and even today, people use those labels with an implicit assumption of homogeneity. While I am a complete nutter when it comes to the notion of FREE (as in freedom), I am increasingly worried that people who mean the same thing, and live by the same principles, end up debating around the trivial aspects of these intellectual buckets, and end up missing the point completely. That there are licenses that range from one extreme (full copyright) to the other (public domain), and there are appropriate cases for all of them. Knowing when to use which license for which benefit is more important than the label one applies.

On the other hand, David&#039;s post is really about tolerance. The real reason for the origin of the term &#039;open source&#039; in software is not really a difference in fundamental philosophy, but a difference in tolerance. Stallman&#039;s extreme view (which I support) and his intolerance around it (which I do not support) caused the schisim between &#039;free&#039; and &#039;open&#039;. Much of which we debate in in fact not fundamental philosophy, but the outcome of human intolerance. It would be a great shame for intolerance to continue to underly our work in this area of free and open educational content. I personally don&#039;t like the term &#039;open&#039;, and I will continue to use &#039;free&#039;, but I am quite happy to tolerate people who use &#039;open&#039; because in the vast majority of cases we are talking about the same thing. My only real desire is that people actually understand their choice of license. Even today, almost everyone I talk to outside of a specific &#039;community&#039; do not understand licenses, and often choose a license for entirely the wrong reason. 

Whether we talk about &#039;free&#039; or &#039;open&#039;, we need to raise awareness of the impact of license choice.

Regarding the differences between software (apples) and content (expressed as other fruit), sure there are differences. However, we need to realise that in a competitive economy, the cost of a good tends to the marginal cost of production. For both software and content, the marginal cost of producion is effectively zero. Both are non-rivalrous goods as well. Hence, they have a lot more in common than they have different. The only fundamental difference between them is in their error tolerance, but other than fatal errors, even that difference may not be as great as we think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne suggested I might like to comment, so here is my comment. The problem with labels is that they assume homogeneity where homogeneity is rare. In South Africa, we had Apartheid that created labels for people, and even today, people use those labels with an implicit assumption of homogeneity. While I am a complete nutter when it comes to the notion of FREE (as in freedom), I am increasingly worried that people who mean the same thing, and live by the same principles, end up debating around the trivial aspects of these intellectual buckets, and end up missing the point completely. That there are licenses that range from one extreme (full copyright) to the other (public domain), and there are appropriate cases for all of them. Knowing when to use which license for which benefit is more important than the label one applies.</p>
<p>On the other hand, David&#8217;s post is really about tolerance. The real reason for the origin of the term &#8216;open source&#8217; in software is not really a difference in fundamental philosophy, but a difference in tolerance. Stallman&#8217;s extreme view (which I support) and his intolerance around it (which I do not support) caused the schisim between &#8216;free&#8217; and &#8216;open&#8217;. Much of which we debate in in fact not fundamental philosophy, but the outcome of human intolerance. It would be a great shame for intolerance to continue to underly our work in this area of free and open educational content. I personally don&#8217;t like the term &#8216;open&#8217;, and I will continue to use &#8216;free&#8217;, but I am quite happy to tolerate people who use &#8216;open&#8217; because in the vast majority of cases we are talking about the same thing. My only real desire is that people actually understand their choice of license. Even today, almost everyone I talk to outside of a specific &#8216;community&#8217; do not understand licenses, and often choose a license for entirely the wrong reason. </p>
<p>Whether we talk about &#8216;free&#8217; or &#8216;open&#8217;, we need to raise awareness of the impact of license choice.</p>
<p>Regarding the differences between software (apples) and content (expressed as other fruit), sure there are differences. However, we need to realise that in a competitive economy, the cost of a good tends to the marginal cost of production. For both software and content, the marginal cost of producion is effectively zero. Both are non-rivalrous goods as well. Hence, they have a lot more in common than they have different. The only fundamental difference between them is in their error tolerance, but other than fatal errors, even that difference may not be as great as we think.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Wayne Mackintosh</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46663</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Mackintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 00:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46663</guid>
		<description>Hi David,

To be fair &quot;open&quot; and &quot;free&quot; are different concepts.  To quote Derek Keats &quot;To be free it must be open, but it can be open without being Free&quot; (http://cnx.org/content/m19865/latest/) --  and agreed this is a values-based position.  The cornerstone of modern democracies lies in freedom --- a First Amendment value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>To be fair &#8220;open&#8221; and &#8220;free&#8221; are different concepts.  To quote Derek Keats &#8220;To be free it must be open, but it can be open without being Free&#8221; (<a href="http://cnx.org/content/m19865/latest/" rel="nofollow">http://cnx.org/content/m19865/latest/</a>) &#8212;  and agreed this is a values-based position.  The cornerstone of modern democracies lies in freedom &#8212; a First Amendment value.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Porter</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46661</link>
		<dc:creator>David Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 20:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46661</guid>
		<description>The 4Rs remain the most inclusive and open-minded way forward that I&#039;ve seen.

Thanks for this post, David.

d.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 4Rs remain the most inclusive and open-minded way forward that I&#8217;ve seen.</p>
<p>Thanks for this post, David.</p>
<p>d.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: charlie lowe</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46658</link>
		<dc:creator>charlie lowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46658</guid>
		<description>It certainly makes sense to have a definition of open content (and thus &quot;openness&quot; in the context of educational resources) that is very inclusive.  We need a fairly clear definition, not only to discuss OER among those active in the OER community, but also administrators, legislators, grant reviewers, tenure review committees, and even fellow teachers interested in OER (or considering creating OER) but not involved in the OER movement. 

Now, I would point out that your definition is not inclusive of CC BY-NC-ND, or at least, it provides measures of &quot;openness&quot; that finds CC BY-NC-ND wanting (because of  ND and NC).  A truly inclusive definition of open content cannot specify remix as an attribute. That would have to be saved for a best practices type statement on choosing an open content license.

Moreover, your definition could also be improved if it did not privilege the &quot;almost PD&quot;/BSD/CC-BY licensing model over copyleft/GPL/CC-SA (from this perspective, OKD is better at defining open content).  Choosing which of these two license models to use is a rhetorical choice based in part on fundamentally different beliefs in how to create knowledge for the public commons. And I would argue that we could theorize all month about which is better, but it would be impossible to prove in general, for the whole OER movement, which is the best to use for every context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly makes sense to have a definition of open content (and thus &#8220;openness&#8221; in the context of educational resources) that is very inclusive.  We need a fairly clear definition, not only to discuss OER among those active in the OER community, but also administrators, legislators, grant reviewers, tenure review committees, and even fellow teachers interested in OER (or considering creating OER) but not involved in the OER movement. </p>
<p>Now, I would point out that your definition is not inclusive of CC BY-NC-ND, or at least, it provides measures of &#8220;openness&#8221; that finds CC BY-NC-ND wanting (because of  ND and NC).  A truly inclusive definition of open content cannot specify remix as an attribute. That would have to be saved for a best practices type statement on choosing an open content license.</p>
<p>Moreover, your definition could also be improved if it did not privilege the &#8220;almost PD&#8221;/BSD/CC-BY licensing model over copyleft/GPL/CC-SA (from this perspective, OKD is better at defining open content).  Choosing which of these two license models to use is a rhetorical choice based in part on fundamentally different beliefs in how to create knowledge for the public commons. And I would argue that we could theorize all month about which is better, but it would be impossible to prove in general, for the whole OER movement, which is the best to use for every context.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nate Otto</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1511/comment-page-1#comment-46657</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate Otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1511#comment-46657</guid>
		<description>A CC-BY-NC-ND license would be so much better a baseline to work from than All Rights Reserved for documents in public discussion, it would be a shame to discourage people from using it, if that&#039;s all the sharing they can muster. 

I&#039;ve recently been trying to imagine a method to cite/link open documents that aren&#039;t necessarily accessible at one URL but are distributed. Using a restrictive license flag like ND doesn&#039;t wipe out fair use rights here in the US, and the ability to distribute content enhances the ability to quote limited sections, etc.

People simply understanding copyright well enough to consider which rights they want to keep and share is a huge improvement over the status quo. Good post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A CC-BY-NC-ND license would be so much better a baseline to work from than All Rights Reserved for documents in public discussion, it would be a shame to discourage people from using it, if that&#8217;s all the sharing they can muster. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve recently been trying to imagine a method to cite/link open documents that aren&#8217;t necessarily accessible at one URL but are distributed. Using a restrictive license flag like ND doesn&#8217;t wipe out fair use rights here in the US, and the ability to distribute content enhances the ability to quote limited sections, etc.</p>
<p>People simply understanding copyright well enough to consider which rights they want to keep and share is a huge improvement over the status quo. Good post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

