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	<title>Comments on: The LHC and Education</title>
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	<description>pragmatism over zeal</description>
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		<title>By: Cecilia d'Oliveira</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44452</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecilia d'Oliveira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44452</guid>
		<description>David, there&#039;s an MIT physics professor named David Pritchard who has been using student performance data to understand what helps MIT students learn physics. His research group is called RELATE (research in learning, assessing, and tutoring effectively - see  relate.mit.edu) and their publications are listed here http://relate.mit.edu/publications_new.htm#contri.  I&#039;d be interested in your feedback on their work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, there&#8217;s an MIT physics professor named David Pritchard who has been using student performance data to understand what helps MIT students learn physics. His research group is called RELATE (research in learning, assessing, and tutoring effectively &#8211; see  relate.mit.edu) and their publications are listed here <a href="http://relate.mit.edu/publications_new.htm#contri" rel="nofollow">http://relate.mit.edu/publications_new.htm#contri</a>.  I&#8217;d be interested in your feedback on their work.</p>
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		<title>By: Participation, impact, collecting data and connecting people &#171; The Weblog of (a) David Jones</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44432</link>
		<dc:creator>Participation, impact, collecting data and connecting people &#171; The Weblog of (a) David Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44432</guid>
		<description>[...] include students, teaching staff, support staff and management). In part this is about address the problem identified by David Wiley The data that we, educators, gather and utilize is all but [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] include students, teaching staff, support staff and management). In part this is about address the problem identified by David Wiley The data that we, educators, gather and utilize is all but [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The indicators project and what it means for me &#171; The Weblog of (a) David Jones</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44400</link>
		<dc:creator>The indicators project and what it means for me &#171; The Weblog of (a) David Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 04:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44400</guid>
		<description>[...] Wiley&#8217;s long term goal is huge, difficult and expensive. You can read more about it on his blog. That goal is beyond the scope of our little indicators project. I think the aims for our project [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Wiley&#8217;s long term goal is huge, difficult and expensive. You can read more about it on his blog. That goal is beyond the scope of our little indicators project. I think the aims for our project [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KC Brady</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44385</link>
		<dc:creator>KC Brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44385</guid>
		<description>May I recommend that you go and read Seymour Papert&#039;s papers on using technology for learning.  Its not about delivering content, and learning is not about acquiring content.  Technology gives us tools for inquiring about the world, and inquiring about the world is learning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I recommend that you go and read Seymour Papert&#8217;s papers on using technology for learning.  Its not about delivering content, and learning is not about acquiring content.  Technology gives us tools for inquiring about the world, and inquiring about the world is learning.</p>
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		<title>By: 2¢ Worth &#187; Is Education Really about Data?</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44380</link>
		<dc:creator>2¢ Worth &#187; Is Education Really about Data?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 00:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44380</guid>
		<description>[...] this post by David Wiley at Iterating Toward Openness was one of those sneaky reads that tricked me into [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this post by David Wiley at Iterating Toward Openness was one of those sneaky reads that tricked me into [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44354</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44354</guid>
		<description>Perhaps you shoudl talk to a a special educator? 
As a special education teacher I have been part of a large body of educators who, as required by federal law and state guidelines, have been providing Individual Education Plans specifically designed to meet the educational needs of a student for many years. This has been done in a data driven decision based model for some 30 years. 

Now this model of educational programming does not have as specific data as you will have- how long on a website and how many clicks. But it does take in to consideration the specific skills exhibited by the student. It also requries the teacher to adapt their pedagogy and (perhaps) curriculum to enable the student to succeed. 

However this is a difficult pedagogical process. It requires a lot of effort and skill on the part of the teacher. It also takes time. And, even with good data, it is not always possible to make the educational plan work well for the student. And may not be supportable in higher education.

There is a considerable body of knowledge in this are that you might consider looking at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you shoudl talk to a a special educator?<br />
As a special education teacher I have been part of a large body of educators who, as required by federal law and state guidelines, have been providing Individual Education Plans specifically designed to meet the educational needs of a student for many years. This has been done in a data driven decision based model for some 30 years. </p>
<p>Now this model of educational programming does not have as specific data as you will have- how long on a website and how many clicks. But it does take in to consideration the specific skills exhibited by the student. It also requries the teacher to adapt their pedagogy and (perhaps) curriculum to enable the student to succeed. </p>
<p>However this is a difficult pedagogical process. It requires a lot of effort and skill on the part of the teacher. It also takes time. And, even with good data, it is not always possible to make the educational plan work well for the student. And may not be supportable in higher education.</p>
<p>There is a considerable body of knowledge in this are that you might consider looking at.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil LaChapelle</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44351</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil LaChapelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44351</guid>
		<description>Interesting post and comments.  I like the OP concept of &quot;educational analytics&quot;.  In a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.educause.edu/blog/HiredEd/OrbitalLearningCommunities/178051&quot; title=&quot;Orbital Learning Communities&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog post&lt;/a&gt; I wrote a while back, I noodled around with the idea of co-opting or exapting some of the metrics and analytics that direct-email marketers use, transforming them for use in education. (I did this in conjunction with some ideas around learning community design.)

Co-opting metrics from related fields is a way to quickly bootstrap this kind of research, addressing the concerns of @Mark Smithers and @Stian Haklev about the relative paucity of useful existing metrics in education. For example, email marketers talk about email &quot;opens&quot;, &quot;click throughs&quot; and &quot;conversions&quot;.  These three concepts apply when a marketing email message contains some kind of &quot;call to action&quot;.  Did people look at the message, did they click through to some landing page, did they do the thing the landing page prompted them to do?  These questions can also be asked of educational resources.

The thing is, on the back of relatively simple metrics like this, some fairly sophisticated analytics can be applied, to derive information about the relative effectiveness of different messages and campaigns.  I am not a numbers wonk, but I sense that it would be useful to try to bastardize these kinds of analytics for educational contexts.  Even the failure of this effort would tell us something about what it is we need to measure in terms of &quot;educational analytics&quot;.

Great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting post and comments.  I like the OP concept of &#8220;educational analytics&#8221;.  In a <a href="http://www.educause.edu/blog/HiredEd/OrbitalLearningCommunities/178051" title="Orbital Learning Communities" rel="nofollow">blog post</a> I wrote a while back, I noodled around with the idea of co-opting or exapting some of the metrics and analytics that direct-email marketers use, transforming them for use in education. (I did this in conjunction with some ideas around learning community design.)</p>
<p>Co-opting metrics from related fields is a way to quickly bootstrap this kind of research, addressing the concerns of @Mark Smithers and @Stian Haklev about the relative paucity of useful existing metrics in education. For example, email marketers talk about email &#8220;opens&#8221;, &#8220;click throughs&#8221; and &#8220;conversions&#8221;.  These three concepts apply when a marketing email message contains some kind of &#8220;call to action&#8221;.  Did people look at the message, did they click through to some landing page, did they do the thing the landing page prompted them to do?  These questions can also be asked of educational resources.</p>
<p>The thing is, on the back of relatively simple metrics like this, some fairly sophisticated analytics can be applied, to derive information about the relative effectiveness of different messages and campaigns.  I am not a numbers wonk, but I sense that it would be useful to try to bastardize these kinds of analytics for educational contexts.  Even the failure of this effort would tell us something about what it is we need to measure in terms of &#8220;educational analytics&#8221;.</p>
<p>Great post!</p>
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		<title>By: ¿Walden o Walden dos? Cuando la identidad digital nos devore&#8230; &#124; El caparazon</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44347</link>
		<dc:creator>¿Walden o Walden dos? Cuando la identidad digital nos devore&#8230; &#124; El caparazon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44347</guid>
		<description>[...] que curiosidad, si no fuera por lo que leía después, desde el ámbito educativo y por parte de David Wiley acerca de la posibilidad que abrirán las futuras evoluciones de medir los datos sobre nuestros [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] que curiosidad, si no fuera por lo que leía después, desde el ámbito educativo y por parte de David Wiley acerca de la posibilidad que abrirán las futuras evoluciones de medir los datos sobre nuestros [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On the Quality of Education Data &#171;</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44344</link>
		<dc:creator>On the Quality of Education Data &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44344</guid>
		<description>[...] 30, 2009 &#183; Leave a Comment  David Wiley has a new post on the quality of education data. Wiley suggests that the real advantage of education technology is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 30, 2009 &middot; Leave a Comment  David Wiley has a new post on the quality of education data. Wiley suggests that the real advantage of education technology is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Lewis</title>
		<link>http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/1098/comment-page-1#comment-44342</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opencontent.org/blog/?p=1098#comment-44342</guid>
		<description>Hi David-
&quot;The data that we, educators, gather and utilize is all but garbage.&quot; That&#039;s got to be one of the best single lines I&#039;ve read in a long time.

Here&#039;s a quote from Stephen Jay Gould that relates to your post. It&#039;s from his 1977 book Ever Since Darwin.
&quot;... ecology is the study of organic diversity. It focuses on the interaction of organisms and their environments in order to address what may be the most fundamental question in evolutionary biology: &#039;Why are there so many kinds of living things?&#039; ... During the first century of Darwinism, ecologists pursued this question with little success. In the face of life&#039;s overwhelming complexity, they chose the empirical route and amassed storehouses of data on simple systems in limited areas. Now, nearly twenty years after the centennial of Darwin&#039;s Origin of Species, this poor sister among evolutionary disciplines has become a leader. Spurred by the efforts of scientists with a mathematical bent, ecologists have built theoretical models of organic interaction and appplied them successfully to explain data from the field. We are finally beginning to understand (and quantify) the causes of organic diversity.&quot;

Ecologists apparently devoted 120 years to gathering descriptive data before it became really useful. This seems like a normal trajectory for scientific domains. I suspect some educators would take exception to your characterization of their research results as garbage. But your point is well taken. We&#039;re still in the early decades of education&#039;s 120 year trek.

Nice post. Very fun.

Gary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David-<br />
&#8220;The data that we, educators, gather and utilize is all but garbage.&#8221; That&#8217;s got to be one of the best single lines I&#8217;ve read in a long time.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a quote from Stephen Jay Gould that relates to your post. It&#8217;s from his 1977 book Ever Since Darwin.<br />
&#8220;&#8230; ecology is the study of organic diversity. It focuses on the interaction of organisms and their environments in order to address what may be the most fundamental question in evolutionary biology: &#8216;Why are there so many kinds of living things?&#8217; &#8230; During the first century of Darwinism, ecologists pursued this question with little success. In the face of life&#8217;s overwhelming complexity, they chose the empirical route and amassed storehouses of data on simple systems in limited areas. Now, nearly twenty years after the centennial of Darwin&#8217;s Origin of Species, this poor sister among evolutionary disciplines has become a leader. Spurred by the efforts of scientists with a mathematical bent, ecologists have built theoretical models of organic interaction and appplied them successfully to explain data from the field. We are finally beginning to understand (and quantify) the causes of organic diversity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ecologists apparently devoted 120 years to gathering descriptive data before it became really useful. This seems like a normal trajectory for scientific domains. I suspect some educators would take exception to your characterization of their research results as garbage. But your point is well taken. We&#8217;re still in the early decades of education&#8217;s 120 year trek.</p>
<p>Nice post. Very fun.</p>
<p>Gary</p>
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